"Well some time ago it was if its not Christian kill it and take its land."

True that! Sadly christianity spread to be as big as it is mostly through war and persecution. A big shame because it became popular by way of things in stark contrast to the teaching of Jesus.

I know I'll be hated for saying this but the only way the region would have peace is if you nuke it. There is no way that groups like Hamas, et al are ever going to stop their terrorist attacks. In fact, they've gone right out and said that. The Palestinian government has no control over them, or if they do its a paper leash. Israeli responds in the only way they can, in the only way their citizenry will allow. They protect their people in the only way possible except for an outright, end all bloodbath.

To all those who preach a moral "high road," wake up. This is reality here, its not a book written 2,000 years ago. Its not some drug induced hippy dreamscape - its a world filled with ads, hunger, death, and destruction. Its a world were you can be perfectly good in heart, do everything right, and still have to dredge from the bottem of some garbage can.

I'd love to see some utopia come around where we don't need warfare nor fear of terrorism but that requires something this world doesn't have. Trust. Until everyone trusts, can hold hands and hug and cry gleefully on each others shoulders, the "christian ideal" won't exist. The only place there is peace is in death. Wake up.

I know I'll be hated for saying this but the only way the region would have peace is if you nuke it.

Well you cant do that. I am assuming that you only want to nuke the 'terrorist palestinians'. Unfortunetly the land they live in is occupied by Israel and filled with israelian settlers that took over land so you would nuke them too.
How should the palestinian government have any authority if their land is occupied and their leader is under house arrest?

"This is reality here, its not a book written 2,000 years ago. "

Actually the ENTIRE thing is all about a book written 2000 years ago....as silly as that is.

I guess your view regarding what side of the wall is "behind" gives us an insight on who's society you consider to be more valuable. Might I remind you that the area of the Arab world is vast while Israel is very small? Why would the Arabs be behind a wall? Why not the Israelis?

As for how Israel could harm them more, Israel could start killing Palestinian children at random. They could annihilate all of the Palestinians. They could presumably destroy every single Arab city in their general area. But they don't. If you want to use the "Israelis kill Palestinians" argument, I suggest you first look up whether such things happen and when and why before you do.

And might I ask why exacly it is Israel that "forces" Palestinians to live in refugee camps? How come it's not their Arab brothers who occupied Palestinian land and then lost it to Israel and who do not allow their Palestinian "brothers" to live in other Arab countries? I reject the insane notion that Arabs are creatures without free will that cannot act but merely react. If some Arabs live in refugee camps, ask the other Arabs why they do. Don't ask the Jews.

Test your anti-semitism, think about a hypothetical question: If Israel had not allowed Jews expelled from Arab countries into Israel and they had to live in refugee camps, who would be responsible for that? The Arabs, Israel, nobody? And since Israel has allowed them in, why could not the Arabs do the same for the other "refugees"?

And feel free to test Jewish and Arab rascism too. Travel to Tel Aviv, go to a public place when a demonstration is going on and loudly announce that Palestine is right and Israel has no right to exist. Then make the corresponding announcement in, say, an Arab city. Compare their reactions to see the results.

What the hell? I really cant believe what i'm reading here:
@Deathmate: I'm sure Israel is a beautiful country but you cant go generalising like you do "These people are pure terrorists. Plain and simple. Yes, I am grouping them together because it is true" well its NOT true.
"I was shocked after reading about the Europeans and there (their?) stupidity." Excuse me? i beleive the way you are writing makes you sound like you are not. I defer you then to my previous comment. "People on this side of the world have no idea what is going on in Israel." on the contrary, we in Europe get to see quite alot about whats happening in Israil, every bomb makes the TV news and the peace process (what remains) gets thorough coverage, maybe the footage doesnt get shown in the US, but thats a whole different problem we dont need to go into.
"People have no money to buy food and some that are homeless now thanks to the arabs. Every penny goes to the army to protect against the terrorists." Thanks to the ARABS? i like how you broaden your opponents now from hamas fundamentalists to an entire people. You guys dont wanna spend every penny on war, fine. As Orwell said: "The quickest way to end a war is to loose it"

@Andrew J. Brehm: You seem to be grossly misinformed by Jewish propaganda. The Jewish military is far from 'linient': "Israel could harm the Palestinians a lot more than it does. What do you think inspires Israeli caution?". I almost choked reading this pearl. Do you honestly think Israel has been abiding by any decent limits here? no, theyve been driving tanks into Palestinian terretories, shooting a bunch of whoever they find, sending out rocket gunships and blowing the hell out of some guys houses. In comparrison, the damage and death ratio is about even. They seem to have no qualm with doing that do they? Please dont act like they do so with a gun to their head, that every Jew wishes to put an end to violence and hopes this next rocket will do the job.
"How do you feel compassion for people who gladly kill themselves just to take a few Israeli children with them?" The real question here is "How does a man go out and kill themselves like that? Whats so important to them that they feel the need to throw away their own life for this cause?". When the Japanese and Nazi forces reached the Bhuddist temples in China in WW2, many of the Monks set themselves on fire as an act of protest for the people. Is there a link? i think so, i think these people feel so strongly about this that they are willing to kill themselves to see it done.
@Chris: "I know I'll be hated for saying this but the only way the region would have peace is if you nuke it." When you next decide to become involved in a discussion on current affairs, do us all a favor and just play some playstation instead. This isnt some crazy film where a nuke has no long lasting effects, let alone the humanitarion crisis of mass genocide. Hell suicide bombing is more preferable than that just because some people are spared.

I think alot of you "pro Israel" are missing the whole goddamn point of the conflict. Israel 'shouldnt' exist. Theyve got no goddamn business being their in the first place. Sure they are 'supposed' to have been their in some story book or other but the fact of the matter is, when they were relocated to Palestine, thats someone elses country now. I dont care how richeous the Israelis think theyre being when they send out rocket gunships or tanks to fight the man on the street with an automatic weapon, the fact that you invaded someone elses country and are fighting back kinda overides that somehow. America, Brittain and whichever other countries agreed that maybe the Jewish people should have their own country didnt stop to think "hang on...we dont have the right to kick the indiginous people out of their own country just cause we feel sorry for the Jews". Its outragous to think that something like this only happened little over half a century ago. Palestine isnt just the origin of Christian and Jewish faiths, its also the origin of the Muslim way of life, and you can see, aside from their physical homeland its their spiritual homeland. Makes sense that they would want to reclaim it dont you?

"Israel biggest threat to world peace? Wrong !!!!" i agree with you on that deathmate...religion, no matter what way you look at it, religion divides us and makes us dislike others. Religion is the biggest threat to world peace but who are we kidding, world peace is a myth. Maybe the United State's war on non Americans is the real threat to a future world peace. Who knows? Were not gonna be finding out anytime soon thats for sure

Why 27 pilots of Israeli army deserted saying that they felt the actions of israel were inmoral?

Can i put here a link to the images of the palestinian children killed randomly or not by the Israeli army??

Also keep in mind that 93 palestinian children were killed in the actual conflict, whereas 3 israeli kids were killed. According to the San Francisco Chronicle, only 5 of those deaths were told on the news, but the 6 jewish kids found place in the first page.

Alison Weir
If Americans Knew
510-655-6384
3284 Adeline St., Suite B
Berkeley, CA 94703

www.IfAmericansKnew.org

sorry: 6 israeli kids were killed, not 3 as i said. its a mistake.

The 1967 war, not the Pabloized distortion

Just a point: Israel could exterminate every Palestinian if it chose to and no one could do anything about that.

Meanwhile, the Palestinian leadership would almost certainly love to kill every jew that exists but is only stopped by lack of means.

So yea, I would say that Israel definitely holds back a lot. I don't seem them occupying anyone's "land" since there has NEVER been an independent state of Palestine.

So much grief for these terroritsts when no one talksa bout the Kurds who are much more deserving.

Arcon,

I'm afraid it's not "Jewish propaganda", it's simply the truth. It doesn't matter whether you find the truth laughable or don't understand or won't accept it. It's still the truth.

And while we are at it, importance to an individual doesn't make a cause moral. I know how important killing Jews is to many Palestinians, but that doesn't make it acceptable.

When I hear you talking, it becomes clear to me why you refer to the truth as "Jewish propaganda".

"Israel shouldn't exist."

The United Nations and even many Arab countries have accepted that even the Jews have a right to their own country. If you don't, then I guess history will leave you behind, you and the other anti-semites. It's tough luck for you though.


Pablo,

keep in mind that ever since you felt you could make your opinion more valuable by claiming to be a doctor of Political Science I won't believe a word you are saying unless you back it up with a source. And no, Palestinian propaganda is NOT a source.

As for school attacks, your "source" lied:

http://www.education.gov.il/children/page_53.htm

Incidentally, now that I know what numbers you base your opinion on, it becomes more clear to me why you believe what you believe.

If you really believe that only six Israeli kids died in the conflict, you might have to rethink your position now.

http://www.education.gov.il/children/page_42_b.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,99102,00.html

A few oddities emerge.

1. Palestinian terrorists always seem to choose Jewish holidays for their attacks.

2. Israeli attacks on palestinians always come AFTER a terrorist attack.

So presumably the Palestinians could end the conflict if they only managed to get over their urge to kill Jews. That, of course, won't happen.

And as for the "refugee" camps, I think it is entirely possible for other Arab countries to simply let these "refugees" live in other Arab countries. If the Arabs prefer their "brothers" to live in camps instead, that's their own bad, not Israel's.

Now, let's look at the facts and see whether they might change your opinion.

1. Palestinians act, Israel reacts. This means Palestinians could end the conflict by not acting. They don't. It's not Israel's fault.

2. Your numbers are wrong.

3. Israel has absorped Jews expelled from Arab nations, Arabs do not absorp Palestinians who left Israel. Israel CANNOT allow Palestinian "refugees" into Israel, since we all know what they would do to the Jews. And Arabs won't allow the expelled Jews back. So the obvious solution is to let the Arabs take care of the Palestinian "refugees".

What's your problem with that?

"I was shocked after reading about the Europeans and there stupidity. "

I supose you don´t need saying anything else.

Peace in the region will come either as a result of the utter decimation of the Palestinians, or the creation of an expansive Palestinian state. Terrorists, which many Palestinian groups, such as Hamas are, will not stop fighting until they have reciveed all the land that they could feasibly ever get. Israel, an oasis of judism in a sea of islam, is certainly going to be the first and only place the Palestinians would attack, thus, the only way Palestine will ever be happy is to gain control of all of Israel.

Arcon: Thanks man, your wisdom is greatly appreciated. Not. Obviously sarcasm is greatly lost upon your far superior mind considering I would never be able to understand the effects of nuclear fallout and the effects that last generations. SARCASM MAN! READ ABOUT IT!

I said what I said to illustrate a point; the only way peace will exist in the region is if you completely get rid of the problem. Of course it’s not realistic, of course it won't (here's hoping) happen. Now back to reality, and this regularly scheduled "debate."

So Israeli has no right to exist eh? No historical reason for being there, no significance, nothing? Oh RIGHT, but the Arabs do since they have a god given mandate of it being their religious "Mecca." Well, um, hate to burst your bubble but the Jews have a pretty similar claim there too. Oh wait, now it all falls back onto religion and we get screwed, right? So now religion becomes to the worlds greatest problem, which it arguably is. Without religion we'd all be a lot better off. However, saying it shouldn't exist is like saying we should nuke the place. Simple, but COMPLETELY unrealistic.

Oh, btw, last time I checked the Nazi's weren't really invading China and destroying Buddhist temples. They were kind of involved half a world away. Playstations bad, remember?

As to the Israeli's invading a country and subjugating the Palestinians, well, they aren't a sovereign state. They have no certified country, WHO is recognizing them? Until they're recognized as a sovereign entity but multiple, major powers or the U.N., then all they are is terrorists, traitors, and guerilla warriors.

man, if you study hard and go to the university you can be a doctor one day too. i seriously dont care about what you believe or not. you are free to be right or wrong. I am used to back my opinions, i don't need that advice, thank you.

so you say that i lie and you back your opinions with links from the israeli government. that's so clever!!

my sources are simply an independent association of jewish people for the peace in the middle east, and they prove you wrong. common sense proves you wrong too, political analisys proves you wrong too. again, look at the death toll, that proves you wrong too.

so, even if we took as a fact the more than dubious statement that the land there was not from the palestinians (who for 2.000 years were 75% of the population), but controlled by some other empire such as Rome, Turkey, England... does that imply that the creation of a jewish state there is more legitimate than the creation of a palestinian state there? Why?

you keep on believing israeli sources and jewish-lobby television channels, you keep on believing american sources and american channels. Why not have a look, just a look, at the arab channels, or at some of the european sources of information? They prove your statements are completely wrong.

Reality is far from what you believe, my friends. You are wrong about your statements about Israel