Israel biggest threat? Wrong !!!! Part 2

Published on November 12, 2003 By deathmate In Current Events

After reading your comments, I must respond:

1. Pablo "6 israeli kids were killed" I would like to know from when are you counting these children. That was the kill from the last terrorist bombing. How about going back to the 1960's when 2 arab terrorists when into a Kibutz and into a kindergarden and killed 16 children. CHILDREN!!!!!! What kind of human beings do that??? U have no idea what is going on. More Isreali children were killed then palastinian chicldren. Isrealis don't go with bombs on then selves and blow up in the middle of a busy street and don't go killing in the name of god.

2. Light_TAS "I think an Israeli child is taught the same type of doctrine" I would like to inform that it is not true. Israelis try to teach their children to not hate but how can you when a palaistinian murder innocent people again and again. Look at the Israelis that went to protect Arafat at the time Israel wanted to kill. You don't see an arab protect a Isreali.

3. To all the Christians out there: Christians belive that a holy war will begin in the holy land. (Jews vs. Arabs) and that the jews will win and the christians will inherit the holy land and any jew who refuses to convert will be killed. How about that? (Ask your priest) Was shown on 20/20.

4. Arcon "Israeli should not exist" Who the hell are you to say Israel shouldn't exist. Jews have suffered through out history because of there religion.And Israel is not only for Jews but for Christians also as the land of Christ.

5. The Palistinians never owned Palastian. The land was always occupied by diffrents countys through out history. And just to add, No arab nation wants the Palastinains.To the other arab nations, The Palastinians are second rate citizians. Jordan kicked out every last one as they were the garabage of the arab nations. If they don't want to live in poverty they can move.Yet they are still there.

6. Yes, Israel is a strong nation. Every citizen is a solder at the age of 18. And we must be strong to fight against the constant threat of terror.

7. Have you all ever had a terrorist with 20kg of dynomite and with hatred in his eyes run towards you wanting to kill you????
I have!!! I served in the Gaza Strip for 2 years. And Yes, I shot him. I have killed 36 Palastians. But it was done out of protection for myself and my fellow solders. These people are animals. I don't care what anyone says. None of you know what terror is until you live in Israel.

8. Once a week there are pro-Palastinian protest by Israelis. I don't see pro-Israel protests by Arabs. hmmmm.... Think about it.

9. Israel has never attacked arabs on there holy holidays. Arabs have. What if I came and demolished your house on Christmas. How would you feel?

10. JeremyG "I was taught that compassion and forgiveness are righteous virtues" I wish it was true. How about telling it too the palistinians.

Comments (Page 1)

Anthony R

on Nov 12, 2003

The Jews respond in a somber and a measured way. The Palestinians intentionally kill civilians, including children by design. When one of these murderers kills a bunch of innocent Jews, the entire Palestinian collective conscience explodes in a raucous celebration in the streets. Palestinians dance, hand out candy, and celebrate their inhumanity, like they did on September 11th. There is no other solution other than expulsion. That day will come.

deathmate

on Nov 12, 2003

Exactly Anthony R.
Israel only retaliates after a bombing and never in the name of god. But I really want to point out that after a bombing when Israel atacks they always let the Palistinians know that we are coming and that we blow up empty buildings. You don't see that on American or European News. But the Palistinans are great at getting press coverage so they will parade dead bodies that are saved in the Hospital morgue for use in there parades of theres. The only arabs that Israel tries to acually kill are Hamas and other group terrorists. Not innocent woman and children. Everything I am telling you here is from pure experience after being there in Gaza for 2 years. You can not imagine the sights I have seen!!!!

Solitair

on Nov 12, 2003

Deathmate, your comments are not the truth. Let me elaborate. Pleas elook at the following site.

http://www.btselem.org/

As you'll see this site is supported by rational Israeli's from academia, media and your Knesset. It focusses on the truth. Please read it, many of your posts are very distorted by hate and a long way from the truth. Look at the details of fatalities since September 2000. Nearly 2500 Palestinians have been killed against almost 750 Israelis (including Arab Israelis). Those are facts. Face them. You're killing over 3 Palestinians for every Israeli. Measured response?

Killing is WRONG. it is NEVER right. There is no such thing as justified killing in response! Israel knowlingly kills innoncent civilians so long as it can justify that a target is also present. That's WRONG.

I don't know what hell you've been through to leave you such a fount of hatred, but please stop trying to spread such hatred among others.

Paul.

Andrew J. Brehm

on Nov 12, 2003

Solitair,

you seem to become more and more desperate in your attempts to vilify Israel and its people. Now you claim "Deathmate" is lying. Well, how do you know? How does btselem know he is?

Killing is wrong. Great. Tell us again. You see, it's not that we don't agree with you, it's just that we don't see an alternative.

But hey, we are openminded. You tell us what a righteous man should do when a dynamite-carrying terrorist comes running towards you with hatred in his eyes. You tell us. If it is wrong to kill him, you tell us what the alternative is.

I say shoot the bastard. He wants to die anyway, no harm no foul. No reason to let him take innocent people with him, is there? Unless one thinks that the terrorists' death is somehow a lot worse if he dies alone...

Anyway, regarding your numbers. I have no idea whether they are true, it isn't even important. If they are true, they are one reason more for the Palestinians to end the Intifada (Arabic for "stupid fight"?), since they seem to be losing. So according to your numbers, Palestinian hatred must be even worse than we assumed, if they prefer losing so many lifes to the Israelis rather than give up their fight.

I tell you what. If killing is wrong, YOU tell those who started it. Don't complain when people respond in kind.

Eagerly awaiting your answer...

anton

on Nov 12, 2003

SOROS BACKS KRUGMAN AND ALTERMAN: George Soros has very rarely spoken to Jewish groups, but last week broke this rule to speak to a conference of the Jewish Funders Network, a philanthropic group. He shares Paul Krugman's belief that rising anti-Semitism in Europe and Asia is in part the fault of the Bush administration, but Soros goes further and argues that, in fact, it's also, in part, the fault of Jews:
When asked about anti-Semitism in Europe, Soros, who is Jewish, said European anti-Semitism is the result of the policies of Israel and the United States. "There is a resurgence of anti-Semitism in Europe. The policies of the Bush administration and the Sharon administration contribute to that," Soros said. "It's not specifically anti-Semitism, but it does manifest itself in anti-Semitism as well. I'm critical of those policies." "If we change that direction, then anti-Semitism also will diminish," he said. "I can't see how one could confront it directly."
Refreshingly frank, I guess. Soros even blames himself for contributing to anti-Semitism by being a wealthy, er, Jew, who makes money on the currency markets, among other things:
The billionaire financier said he, too, bears some responsibility for the new anti-Semitism, citing last month's speech by Malaysia's outgoing prime minister, Mahathir Mohammad, who said, "Jews rule the world by proxy." "I'm also very concerned about my own role because the new anti-Semitism holds that the Jews rule the world," said Soros, whose projects and funding have influenced governments and promoted various political causes around the world. "As an unintended consequence of my actions," he said, "I also contribute to that image."
So wealthy Jews are somehow responsible because others observe their wealth and invent crack-pot notions of Jews ruling the world? Huh? Anti-semitism doesn't fester in every climate. But it does particularly well when it is excused, rationalized or appeased. It seems to me that this is what George Soros has just done - and it's the only thing for which he should feel in any way responsible.

joetheblow

on Nov 12, 2003

I think there is a mis-understanding for both sides.

Israel does not intentionally attack civilians no matter how anyone may feel they do. It is never intentional. I do, on the other hand, think that they over react at time (regardless of what Israel is facing) and tend to want to kill a terrorist leader and be more or less caring about people who might get killed in the action

But what else can the Israelis do?

Firstly STOP retaliating. Retaliating is not a plan it is a reaction. If Israel start making a real plan toward the terrorists they might actually stop the killing.

Secondly, try to HELP the Palestinian community out. They need there help to extinguish the killing. Any good police officer will tell you it is the community who helps arrest criminals.

Israel, being the only one that has a responsible government in this "un-official war" has to use its power and leadership to understand that Palestine is being USED by the terrorist to keep their power as well as other countries in the region.

Israel should understand that and PLAN a strategy.

In the end Palestine culture has absorbed the idea of killing this way being OK even by the Koran. (Somehow those who get killed by flying shrapnel are supposed to be killed otherwise God would have saved them... lets see, so how about if I push you over a bridge 200 feet below... if you survive God is on your side)

Israel should stop 'expanding' and face the fact that it will only be so big. No Palestine does not exist but neither did Israel before WWII. Lets not ignore original people's right to claim land REGARDLESS of the fact that it was owned bu multiple peoples

Solitair

on Nov 13, 2003

Andrew,
if someone runs towards you with explosive then you may indeed have to kill them. Please look at the web site aginst though. It does NOT include Palestinian deaths who were suicide bombers! The numbers ARE important though. Every single number, whether Israeli or Palestinian is a life that should have been lived. Nothing is more important than that. Not pride, not territory, not religion. When people begin to realise and believe that then the killing may stop.

As for 'who started it', IT DOESN'T MATTER! You'll get no where trying to apportion blame, and neither side is every going to say 'it's our fault'. People need a solution not a past.

Paul.

Andrew J. Brehm

on Nov 13, 2003

Joetheblow,

your plan is stupid. I am sorry, but it true.

Firstly, Israel has already tried stopping retaliating. It didn't work. The terrorist sense weakness and attack more often. That's what happened in the past. At some point one will have to accept the realities of empirical observation.

Secondly, Palestinians generally DO NOT HELP arresting the terrorists, they support them. If Israel showed weakness and the attacks would increase again, Palestinians will cheer rather than help the Israelis. It has happened before.

Israel does understand that and has a strategy.

Every decade or so somebody comes up and explains that the very simple solution to the conflict is for Israel to simply stop defending itself. It is a solution, alright, but it is not one Israel can live with, in a very real sense of the term.

deathmate

on Nov 13, 2003

1. Andrew J. Brehm, You are great!! About time someone knows what he is talking about.
There is no way to stop the fighting. This is going to go on and on forever. There will never be peace.

Yes, The Palastinians do not arrest the terrorists. Why should they, when they believe what the terrorist believes.

2. Solitair "Killing is WRONG. it is NEVER right." What about 9/11? Is is wrong for America to retaliate against the arabs.
If Isreal can't retaliate after a suicide bombing then America should just site back and let crazy arabs fly buildings into planes. How about that? Who hijacked planes in the '80? Arabs!! Who are killing women and children by suicide bombing buses in the name of god? Arabs!! Lets also forget about the numbers. Yes, Everyone should have a right to live there life to the fullest But we are living in riality here. War is War. The Arabs are not going to stop so should Israel just sit and let them kill and not do anything.

No one can understand what I have been through unless you lived in Israel and served in the army. You can't understand the hatred these arabs have agaist Israel. But it is not only us they hate as also the US. But as of right now you have less of a chase of going in a mall in the US and getting blown up. I am suprised this has not begun yet as security in the US is a joke. Airport security is a joke. Nothing has changed. So they take your shoes off, Big Deal. Until a suicide bomber goes into a US mall and blows himself up then maybe security will be hightened. But this is a whole nother subject.

joetheblow

on Nov 13, 2003

I know about Israel's stopping retaliating... it was a week to a month at most. What my plan involves more play then that.

Of course the terrorist attack more, but not for the reasons you state. They attack more TO PROVOKE Israel to attack back.
This way the terrorist can say to the Palestinians and other Arab countries in the region.

Israel is playing into there hands not out of. As you stated Andrew, it will go on for ever because Israel retaliates instead of plans. Terrorist use the media, so can Israel. By playing the victim to a tee, they will have more ability to strike, find, and destroy those who attack.

I think the world focuses on Israel because it is the only country involved that can ACTUALLY RESPOND. PALESTINE HAS NO GOVERNMENT OR RULE OF LAW. Give the Palestinians something to loose and fighting will become a after thought and so will supporting terrorists.

Minds without direction tend to follow anything that gives pride. Many Palestinian fall into that category.

Palestine is on a road to self destruction and it will take Israel and the region with it. Give them a chance to re-build their sociality. time of 2 years. If noting changes they will be, more likely than not, re-formed through camps, new forced government. Also noting that war would ensue and the one leverage that terrorists have is the willingness for the other side to pull back because the terrorist hide behind civilians. In a war, a real one, they won't be able to hide.

Israel has to get the world on its side and show restraint to a degree that no one can deny. Once the th resold is past, then its all or nothing. Real war or peace. One way or another it will end. No more 20 years later fighting... I'll admit my plan is pretty extreme but as you can see, Patience is used very well and a end to the conflict proceeds once all the gray areas have been made black or white. Patience will do that.

Israel needs a green light to fight, but its current path will not get it to that point.

Andrew J. Brehm

on Nov 13, 2003

Joetheblow,

the current Intifada is not the first. Israel has already tried the plan you propose several times, in the last 5 decades. Please think of something new, preferably something that does not require Israel to let its people die. Your plan won't work. Accept that.

The terrorists do not attack to provoke, they attack to kill. They actually believe they can win. And because of people like you, who demand that Israel should try let them, they actually might have a chance to succeed.

Look, I have been a liberal democrat all my life (that is liberal democrat in Europe, not the US) and I never much liked the Republicans (even though it turns out most of my American friends are Republicans), and I certainly didn't like George Bush or what he stood for. But for heaven's sake, this president is not letting Israel down and most Americans seem to support him and thus people like you and their plans won't be fruitful and Israel will survive.

Since I realized that I found myself more and more hoping that George Bush would win the next election (as he probably will) or will be replaced by Joe Lieberman rather than any other Democrat.

The only chance Israel has is to kill every single terrorist and demoralize the Palestinian population. The US/UK invasion of Iraq does its part convincing the Arabs that they do not have a chance. Once the Arabs realize that G-d doesn't care about them and certainly won't reward them for killing people, they will give it up.

Similar strategies worked on the Japanese and Germans; I know, I live in Germany.

Deathmate,

thanks. But you got one thing wrong. There will be peace, but only if and when the Palestinians give up their love for terrorism. And one thing is certain about terrorism and terrorists. They won't give it up when it starts working. And that's why we must not give in and stop defending ourselves, or Israel.

Pablo

on Nov 14, 2003

i am sorry but a lot of you have been far too manipulated with jewish propaganda, and too uneducated to talk about these topics, so goodbye.

Andrew J. Brehm

on Nov 14, 2003

Pablo,

your postings have been completely devoid of facts and you have no basis to judge anybody's education, not even your own.

I will miss your postings, if only because they have been a lot easier to debunk than the postings of other anti-semites and/or Israel critics.

You know, you should at least learn that calling facts or opinions "Jewish propaganda" does not really convince people that you are right. It convinces people that you are a victim of Jewish conspiracy theories and a total loony.

You might just want to rethink whether this is the image you want others to have of you.

anton

on Nov 14, 2003

Top commander says Israeli tactics are too harsh

Senior military officer questions governmentâ€™s approach to conflict

By Molly Moore
THE WASHINGTON POST

JERUSALEM, Oct. 30 â€” Israelâ€™s senior military commander told columnists for three leading newspapers this week that Israelâ€™s military tactics against the Palestinian population were too repressive and were fomenting explosive levels of â€œhatred and terrorismâ€ that might become impossible to control.

IN REMARKS that suggest a dramatic split with the approach of the current government, Lt. Gen. Moshe Yaalon, chief of staff of the Israeli armed forces, said that crackdowns, curfews and roadblocks in the West Bank and Gaza Strip were crippling the lives of innocent Palestinians and that the militaryâ€™s tactics were now threatening Israelâ€™s own interests.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/987256.asp?vts=103120030730

MadIce

on Nov 15, 2003

"5. The Palistinians never owned Palastian. The land was always occupied by diffrents countys through out history. And just to add, No arab nation wants the Palastinains.To the other arab nations, The Palastinians are second rate citizians. Jordan kicked out every last one as they were the garabage of the arab nations. If they don't want to live in poverty they can move.Yet they are still there."

I am just curious: Where should they move to? It looks like they can't go back were they came from, because they don't have an origin. The Arabs don't want them. The Israeli don't want them.

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